Ok this may be a stupid question, but I am a little behind on my BSG because of work and classes and just getting caught up now before new episodes are on.....So I am watching the fight episode and Starbuck called Lee, Major. I thought he got a promotion, I didn't think it was taken away when the Pegasus got destroyed....

It was taken away when the Peggy got destroyed. Poor Lee... I think he needs a grope... er, a hug!


;) :)

It isn't that it was taken away, it is just that he is filling the role of a Major in his job as CAG, so that is his rank.
He was filling the role of a Commander on the Peggy, so that was his rank.

I still volunteer to comfort him for his loss!

;)

I'm only on season 2, so I am not at this point in the story.

But if you don't mind me asking a question on his rank, as I'm not really an expert on military stuff.

Lee, in the space of two episodes in season 2 went from Captain up to Commander!:o
When he was shot in the hostage show, he was Captain.
Next episode, he was returning to duty after a few weeks, and was now Major.
At the end of the episode, the new commander of the Pegusas was dead, and Lee was now Commander.
Which means he jumped the rank of Colonel.(and perhaps Lt Colonel, if that rank ins in use in the CF)

Is it normal for an officer to jump that many ranks in such a short space of time? Especialy given Lee's spotty record when he sided with the President after the Military Coup.
I know it is war and officer will be promoted faster, but surly this is a wee bit of Adml Adama looking after his boy.;)

So Dubs & Uno, is this type of rapid promotion normal in the military?
BRG

Is it normal for an officer to jump that many ranks in such a short space of time? Especialy given Lee's spotty record when he sided with the President after the Military Coup.
I know it is war and officer will be promoted faster, but surly this is a wee bit of Adml Adama looking after his boy.;)

So Dubs & Uno, is this type of rapid promotion normal in the military?
BRG

So I am not in the military, but I work with them, so I got some insights. This type of rapid promotion isn't common, but I think it has happened in desperate situations where you have a limited number of people and need to fill a position and the rank comes with a position. I am not entirely sure this was the Adrml was just looking out for Lee. If you look at whose around, the only other person of a higher rank than Lee really is Saul, and I don't think the Admrl would ever give the command to Saul given his drinking and fighting with the crew, given a choice between Lee and Saul....

I'm only on season 2, so I am not at this point in the story.

But if you don't mind me asking a question on his rank, as I'm not really an expert on military stuff.

Lee, in the space of two episodes in season 2 went from Captain up to Commander!:o
When he was shot in the hostage show, he was Captain.
Next episode, he was returning to duty after a few weeks, and was now Major.
At the end of the episode, the new commander of the Pegusas was dead, and Lee was now Commander.
Which means he jumped the rank of Colonel.(and perhaps Lt Colonel, if that rank ins in use in the CF)

Is it normal for an officer to jump that many ranks in such a short space of time? Especialy given Lee's spotty record when he sided with the President after the Military Coup.
I know it is war and officer will be promoted faster, but surly this is a wee bit of Adml Adama looking after his boy.;)

So Dubs & Uno, is this type of rapid promotion normal in the military?
BRG


Look at the Navy.

A Lt Commander can be the "Captain" of the Ship/boat. Why? Because the highest ranking person on the ship is called Captain.


If My memory serves right the Pegasus had a promotion form within of someone who was Major to Commander. Or should I say they were given command of the ship. Since Lee had been serving on the ship, he would have been the next highest person and as such the next in line to assume the title of Commander. (* Which in the BSG world also comes with new tabs so the confusion is real easy to understand *)

I am not saying it is this way, but this is how I easily resolved the issue myself. (* Other than saying they know nothing of rank :( *)

So in the Navy, would a Lt Commander or a full Commander be called Captain but still wear their own rank stripes? Or are they allowed to wear the Captain's rank?
I remember a few times in Star Trek when Riker took command of a ship he wore commanders pips(as did Data), but on occasion when Picard was feared dead, he wore the 4 pips of Captain.

And does this apply the other way? Would a Commodore or an Admiral in command of a ship still be called Captain? It would seem bizzare for an officer to be called by a rank lower than his position?:confused:

Indeed it is confusing for us with just a laymans knowlage.;)
BRG

I have a few other questions if you don't mind.

Admirals
How much power does the President have in promoting officers in the military? Indeed, who decides which officers become Generals, Admirals and Air Marshals?
I was thinking about when Admrl Cain appeared on the scene. Could President Roslin just make Adama top dog over Cain by switching their ranks, or by promoting Adama over her head to Fleet Admiral?

Non officers becoming officers
Ah! The lovely Dualla!:)
Again, I know circumstances are extreem on BSG, but what are the procedure for someone of Dualla's rank being given a commission.
She was a specialist( I have no idea how high that rank is) then she is sleeping with Lee Adama-commander of the Pegasus, then before you know whats what, she is a bridge officer on the Pegasus.:o Aye, you can bet there was some unhappy grumbles on that ship.;)
I would have thought to be promoted to an officer you would have to either-
a) Attend officer training at the CF equivelant of Sandhurst.
b) Be promoted from the highest non officer rank.
Seems like another case of the Old pals act from the Adama clan.;)
BRG

I have a few other questions if you don't mind.

Admirals
How much power does the President have in promoting officers in the military? Indeed, who decides which officers become Generals, Admirals and Air Marshals?
I was thinking about when Admrl Cain appeared on the scene. Could President Roslin just make Adama top dog over Cain by switching their ranks, or by promoting Adama over her head to Fleet Admiral?

Non officers becoming officers
Ah! The lovely Dualla!:)
Again, I know circumstances are extreem on BSG, but what are the procedure for someone of Dualla's rank being given a commission.
She was a specialist( I have no idea how high that rank is) then she is sleeping with Lee Adama-commander of the Pegasus, then before you know whats what, she is a bridge officer on the Pegasus.:o Aye, you can bet there was some unhappy grumbles on that ship.;)
I would have thought to be promoted to an officer you would have to either-
a) Attend officer training at the CF equivelant of Sandhurst.
b) Be promoted from the highest non officer rank.
Seems like another case of the Old pals act from the Adama clan.;)
BRG

I have no clue on th admirals thing, but I know that you can be promoted from a non-officer rank to an officer rank. That happenned during WWII in the army

So in the Navy, would a Lt Commander or a full Commander be called Captain but still wear their own rank stripes? Or are they allowed to wear the Captain's rank?
I remember a few times in Star Trek when Riker took command of a ship he wore commanders pips(as did Data), but on occasion when Picard was feared dead, he wore the 4 pips of Captain.

And does this apply the other way? Would a Commodore or an Admiral in command of a ship still be called Captain? It would seem bizzare for an officer to be called by a rank lower than his position?:confused:

Indeed it is confusing for us with just a laymans knowlage.;)
BRG


A Commodore is someone of Captain Rank who is also on the ship. A ship can have only one Captain.

An Admiral is an Admiral.

In the US Navy The "Captain" of the boat/ship might be a Commander, and they wear the Commanders ensignia.

In the BSG Navy, I do not know. It is not my world, so maybe someone can ask a writer? ;)

I have a few other questions if you don't mind.

Admirals
How much power does the President have in promoting officers in the military? Indeed, who decides which officers become Generals, Admirals and Air Marshals?
I was thinking about when Admrl Cain appeared on the scene. Could President Roslin just make Adama top dog over Cain by switching their ranks, or by promoting Adama over her head to Fleet Admiral?

If Rosie just bumped Adama up to Admiral he still would of been less junior to Cain, the whole time in rank thing comes into play.
Plus Cain wouldn't of accepted it anyways, she barely tolerated Roslyn in the first place and sure would not listen to anything she did not want to hear from that school teacher with delusions of grandure.

Non officers becoming officers
Ah! The lovely Dualla!:)
Again, I know circumstances are extreem on BSG, but what are the procedure for someone of Dualla's rank being given a commission.

Here we are talking about not just a foriegn military, but a completly different from a society that in many ways is alien to ours...
So I am going to go with Lee was boinking her, but the regs said he shouldn't be boinking enlisted so he asked Daddy to bump her up, he didn't see the harm since they were just orbiting planet Mudball, so they made her a LT.

She was a specialist( I have no idea how high that rank is) then she is sleeping with Lee Adama-commander of the Pegasus, then before you know whats what, she is a bridge officer on the Pegasus.:o Aye, you can bet there was some unhappy grumbles on that ship.;)

They called her a PO2 a couple times, which is the best rank you can be IMNSHO, you don't have to do the crap work and not too much authority, plus you have minions.
She was in CIC anyways and on the Peggy she was probably the comms specialist for the entire ship and thus was technically doing an officers job.

I would have thought to be promoted to an officer you would have to either-
a) Attend officer training at the CF equivelant of Sandhurst.
b) Be promoted from the highest non officer rank.
Seems like another case of the Old pals act from the Adama clan.;)
BRG

Their are several options in the USN, you get sent to college then go to a short school, you can get a direct commission and be Limited Duty Officer, you can apply to the Academy, their are others but I never really paid any attention, doesn't interest me.

Lee, in the space of two episodes in season 2 went from Captain up to Commander!:o

Who else was their to do it?
Tigh has stated he does not want command, personally I didn't think he was doing too bad a job with the Big G until he let his wife screw it up.

Is it normal for an officer to jump that many ranks in such a short space of time?

In war yes.

I know it is war and officer will be promoted faster, but surly this is a wee bit of Adml Adama looking after his boy.;)

It wasn't Pappa Adama looking out for baby Adama, Lee was the only established Character available to take command of the Peggy, personally I would of liked to see Fisk stick around and die with the Peggy, but that was just me.

Cheers Dubs, ShadowRunner & Ping898.:) Indeed it must be fairly obvious that BRG's only real sorce of military ranks is from Star Trek!:D (Outrageous when you consider my wee brother is a soldier!:o )
If you don't mind indulging me again, I have a few other queries which I'm unsure of.

Admirals....again!
Would a ship the size of Galactica or Pegasus ever be commanded by an Admiral- especially in peace-time, as Admrl Cain was in command of the Pegasus in a period were decades had passed without incedent?
In the US Navy or Royal Navy, would an Admiral command an aircraft carrier?

Again, using Star Trek as a model. There are very few occasions when an Admiral is ever seen in command of a ship- Admrl Kirk in STII:TWOK(but only because Capt Spock stood aside), in the TNG classic Best of Both Worlds Admrl Hanson commanded a starship as part of the fleet which he was in overall command, and in STVIII:FC and DS9's Dominion War I believe Admirals were seen using a flagship as a command post for the battlefleet.
In TOS only Captains & Commodores commanded starships-indeed Admrl Kirk had to take a temporary grade reduction to Capt in order to command the Enterprise in ST:TMP. And in TNG onwards, I believe it was only ever Captains as commanding officers.
BRG

Number of senior officers
On Galactica & Pegasus, how many officer on that ship would be a Major or higher?
On one of his commentaries, RDM stated that he wanted the Galactica to feel like a 1960's American or British carrier, while it was a big ship, it needed a lot of crew to run her so it always felt cramped.(of corse, Galactica was running down to retirement, so was opperating understaffed)
Pegasus on the other hand, feels like a carrier maybe 15-20 years down the line from currant ships- much bigger, but need far fewer crew to run her.

So how many top level officers do you think?
Obviously only 1 Commander(or Admiral;) ).
But how many Colonels? Just the XO, or do you think there would be more?
And what about Majors? I would think you would need a fair few as department heads. If a Major is roughly the same as a Lt Cmdr, how many Lt Cmdr's serve aboard modern carriers?

And what about Marines on a ship? How the hell do they fit in? Can a Marine officer take a role in the Navy if needs dictate? What would be the highest ranked Marine assined to this type of ship? And would say, a Marine Brigadier have authority over lower ranked navel officers on the ship, or would he have to deferr to their authority?

Aye, its baffeling for us on the outside looking in!:D
BRG

Cheers Dubs, ShadowRunner & Ping898.:) Indeed it must be fairly obvious that BRG's only real sorce of military ranks is from Star Trek!:D (Outrageous when you consider my wee brother is a soldier!:o )

Thats ok, all this stuff confuses the heck out of my dad. I don't care for the ranks in ST, for one I am pretty sure everyone is an officer, at least in Battlestar they have enlisted doing important stuff.

Admirals....again!
Would a ship the size of Galactica or Pegasus ever be commanded by an Admiral- especially in peace-time, as Admrl Cain was in command of the Pegasus in a period were decades had passed without incedent?
In the US Navy or Royal Navy, would an Admiral command an aircraft carrier?

The Big G is a HUGE ship, and I mean HUGE, their was a drawing put out by Zoic awhile ago that compared the size of the Galacitca to a Nimitz CVN and the CVN is just dwarfed, and the Peggy is supposed to be at least twice as big.
But I would imagine that Cain was commander of the Pegasus battlegroup and when they blind jumped she found herself an admiral without a group so she just took command, heck the first XO she shot might just of been the Peggies original commander, but that is just speculation on my part.

I believe Admirals were seen using a flagship as a command post for the battlefleet.

The flagship is just any ship the flag officer is on. Usually it is the biggest ship just do to the fact it has room and facilities for him and his staff. A Ticonderoga CG is a better flagship than a DDG because it has more berthing space and its CIC is better equiped for the group commander.

Number of senior officers
On Galactica & Pegasus, how many officer on that ship would be a Major or higher?

However many Adama wants...
Seriously before Lee got promoted I don't think their were any majors, you had Captain Kelly, the department heads should be majors or Colonels.

So how many top level officers do you think?
Obviously only 1 Commander(or Admiral;) ).
But how many Colonels? Just the XO, or do you think there would be more?
And what about Majors? I would think you would need a fair few as department heads. If a Major is roughly the same as a Lt Cmdr, how many Lt Cmdr's serve aboard modern carriers?

I can't answer as for the carriers, but on the 2 DDG's I have been on we have had a Commander as CO, a LCDR as XO, 5 LCDR's (junior to the XO though) or senior LT's as department heads and then all the divisions get a LT, LTJG or ensign as a Divo.
In the case of LCDR's being department heads usually they are already a department head and just get approved for promotion while serving as said department head.
I've talked to people on Carriers and apparently they do have Captains as department heads (the reactor department for example, and maybe the supply department) but other than that I have no clue.

And what about Marines on a ship? How the hell do they fit in? Can a Marine officer take a role in the Navy if needs dictate? What would be the highest ranked Marine assined to this type of ship? And would say, a Marine Brigadier have authority over lower ranked navel officers on the ship, or would he have to deferr to their authority?

The Marine detachment would still be under command of Adama and Tigh but would be a seperate security force than the rest of the ship. Other than that your guess is as good as mine.

Cheers Dubs, ShadowRunner & Ping898.:) Indeed it must be fairly obvious that BRG's only real sorce of military ranks is from Star Trek!:D (Outrageous when you consider my wee brother is a soldier!:o )
If you don't mind indulging me again, I have a few other queries which I'm unsure of.

Admirals....again!
Would a ship the size of Galactica or Pegasus ever be commanded by an Admiral- especially in peace-time, as Admrl Cain was in command of the Pegasus in a period were decades had passed without incedent?
In the US Navy or Royal Navy, would an Admiral command an aircraft carrier?

Again, using Star Trek as a model. There are very few occasions when an Admiral is ever seen in command of a ship- Admrl Kirk in STII:TWOK(but only because Capt Spock stood aside), in the TNG classic Best of Both Worlds Admrl Hanson commanded a starship as part of the fleet which he was in overall command, and in STVIII:FC and DS9's Dominion War I believe Admirals were seen using a flagship as a command post for the battlefleet.
In TOS only Captains & Commodores commanded starships-indeed Admrl Kirk had to take a temporary grade reduction to Capt in order to command the Enterprise in ST:TMP. And in TNG onwards, I believe it was only ever Captains as commanding officers.
BRG


An Admiral is usually in charge of a Fleet. They have a flag ship. This ship maybe a carrier or some other ship depending upon what they are doing. In either case, the Admiral is in charge and may also give orders, but there still is someone with the RANK/Title of Captain on the ship who is responsible for the ship per se. Even though everyone knows that the Captain in this case is just a position for chain of command, and the Admiral is in charge.

A movie that many may have seen or could see easily is Midway with Charlston Heston. There is an Admiral on board one of the carriers I believe and the captain is secondary to him of course.

So given this US Navy Model, it is possible for a Battle Star to have an Admiral as her commanding officer. Now with the assumption that the commander is the one charge of the Battle Star no matter the rank, then the Admiral may also be the Commander in BSG world. Or they could have a Captain and then a First Officer as well. In this case Admiral Cain pointed out that many of her crew were off board due to retrofit and shore leave. So her Commander may have been on shore leave, or there may never have been one.


In another fictional storyline - Robert Heinlein in Starship Troopers - gave an example of a Marine officer of the Rank of Captain on baord a ship. While on board his rank was referred to as Major (* once again the ship can only have one Captain - which maybe why the BSG world went with Commander back in the day *).

In most cases a Marine officer would not be able to be in charge of a ship, even if he/she was the highest rank. On the US Naval Carriers the Captain and XO must be Nuke and Flight qualified for these positions. One could become a Sub Captain with the Rank of Captain (* aka one of the big boomers *) and just be Nuke Qualified - no Flight school. So it is possible to get to Captain and then even Admiral without Flight. Although I know of no way (* And I am by no means an expert so there could be just unknown to me *) that someone could get to Captain(Rank not title) or Admiral in Today's Navy without being nuke qualified.

So, if the BSG world followed the real world, I would not expect a Marine Officer to ever step into being a Naval Officer of senior position. i.e. Commander or XO.



Hmmm Another thought on the Admiral Commander issue. Admiral Adama did not appoint anyone to be Commander of the Big G. He still has his XO, and CAIG positions though and they did not bump in rank. So my expectation is that while Tigh is a Colonel there could be a Major XO as well. The Commander may have been a Major themselves before their position change to Commander. Kind of like Line Officer versus non-line officer. (* Star by their rank in US Navy *) The Line Officers are in line for taking authority while the Non-line Officers are not.

Battlefield promotions can happen. It is rare in the modern US military, but you hear about it happening in past wars, such as WWII. My grandfather started out as a no-rank Seaman Recruit when he joined the Navy during WWII. After 25 years and 3 wars, he retired as a Lieutenant Commander. He never went to college (which is generally a requisite for officer rank), but earned his rank the hard way.

As to how much influence the President has... I would hope he has none, but he is technically the Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces (**shudders in disgust at the the thought of the last few Presidents in that role!!**) , so I suppose he could recommend names for promotion.

I would hope that the promotions would be based on less biased criteria than that, though! Generally it would require a certain amount of time in service, a certain amount of time within the current rank and then the person would go before a promotions board and be promotoed (or not) based on their performance and service record. Of course, in times of war, the process is most likely changed to reflect current needs.

a) Attend officer training at the CF equivelant of Sandhurst.
b) Be promoted from the highest non officer rank.

Defintely on the A and most likely not on the B. You don't have to work your way through all the enlisted ranks before you can become an officer, if you did, you would have the oldest Lieutenants in the Army and be wasting your senior personnel's skills.

Lieutenants aren't worth much (no offense to any junior officers out there!) and you would never expect a very senior enlisted person to accept such a loss in respect and power. Generally, lower enlisted ranks decide to go through officer's training and work their way up from the lowest officer rank. If you have been in the military long enough to become a very senior enlisted person then it is highly unlikely you would start all over again as a mere O-1 (the lowest pay grade for officers).

Speaking of pay grades, that would be another reason not to go from senior enlisted to juior officer. You would be taking a MAJOR pay cut!

According to Military.com (http://www.military.com/military/benefits/0,15465,military_pay_charts,00.html) an E-9 (highest enlisted) with over 26 years of service would be making a base pay of $5512.80 and an O-1 who has been promoted from an enlisted rank with the same years in service would be making a base pay of $3857.40. You may not be able to access the URL, I think it requires a password, sorry!

Hi Uno.:)

I honestly never thoght of it like that!:o
Of corse a guy in his 40's who has worked his way up to say a Colour Sergent or Warrent Officer would not jump to a 2nd Lt rank along with a bunch of 20 year old chinless college-boy drips!:D
I'm afraid I just assumed that you would automaticly want to move up one big ladder, I never took into accout you would be jumping from the top of one ladder onto the bottom of another.

But the pay thing is a suprise. Again I just thought it would start at the bottom with a Private, and increase along a set scale right up to Field Marshal. It never occured to me that lower officers actually earn less than high up enlisted men.
I suppose it must be a class thing over here. In the UK military, enlisted men tend to come almost exclusivly from the working class, middle ranking officer from the middle classes, and by the time you get to the Generals, Admirals and Air Marshals, you are talking real blue bloods.(of corse, this is a generlisation, but I remember reading a few years ago that over 80% of our top brass came from the upper class)
BRG