View Full Version : The “Myths” of College Education, Basic Skills and you.


Silent Bob
06-14-2007, 04:01 PM
The “Myths” of College Education, Basic Skills and you.
By Bob Hubbard

First, some ancient history. In the late 1980’s and early 1990’s I took 4 forays into the world of “college education”. Based on those experiences, my opinion of the usefulness of such things was rather low. I was taught outdated skills on obsolete equipment by closed minded conservatives who were out of touch with the industry I was attempting to enter. Now, 15+ years later, I have to wonder however, where the true fault lie?

I picked my first college based on a brief tour, where the food was excellent, the college small, and the tour guide cute. I turned down another school because the campus was large, the food sub par, and the guide bored. Guess which school had the superior education opportunity though? The advisor I had insisted that things I and others were already doing weren’t possible at that time. As the only computer instructor on campus, he also nitpicked my work, deducting points for code formatting (3 indents rather than the 2 he preferred) on working programs, while awarding higher grades to others non-functional but properly formatted programs. I left, disillusioned and angry.
Fault – Mine.

My second attempt was ill timed. I abandoned my dream and enrolled, switching gears at the same time I hit some major relationship issues. I ended up flopping out, and only the guidance of one of my teachers helped me get through the personal crisis.
Again, Fault-mine.

Attempt 3 was a community college. I took a tour, saw top notch equipment, talked to some excellent instructors and saw a great program laid out in front of me. On enrolling however, I ended up in the wrong program, substandard equipment and a narrow viewpoint that disillusioned me again, leading to my departure.
Fault? Not sure here really.

My final attempt was started with great fanfare. I was motivated and really excited to be there. In my third term however, a series of issues again disillusioned me, and I left, this time for good. What were those issues? Technical incompetence by an instructor (who was learning today what he would teach tomorrow, literally), combined with running out of money led to the end of my college experimentation.
Fault? – Mine.

In the first example, I picked the wrong school. If I had gone with the other choice, my life would have taken a much different turn. With the others, a combination of poor timing, poor research and running out of time led to my failures.

Ok, so I tried 4 times, struck out. What does it all mean? Do I think college is a waste of time, money, etc?

Yes, and No.

Yes, I do think it is a waste of time if:
- You have won the lottery
- Plan on only working menial jobs your entire life
- Have no desires to ever run your own business, manage, or lead.

No, I think you need it if you:
- Want to have something solid to fall back on if your dreams fail to come true.
- Want to be taken seriously in numerous fields
- Want a chance at a better job, higher pay and greater promotion.

I’ve talked with numerous employers. When they look at hiring technical people, one of the things they look at is if you have a college degree. Even a mere associates degree from a 2 year school will more than double your chances at a good paying position, compared to only having a high school degree.

You have a binder full of technical certifications? That’s nice. Let me quote a recruiter from one of the companies I spoke to about this: “If you don’t have a college degree, we aren’t interested. We don’t care how many certifications you have if you don’t have a degree, even just a 2-year one.”

“But I don’t need all that stuff they want me to take.”
Yup, I said that. The mind of the 18-22 year old is often quite stubborn. At 15, writing and speaking scared the hell out of me. At 22 I felt certain that I’d never need to do more than write the occasional letter. Now, at 35, I regret not having paid more attention in those classes when I took them.

It is said that math makes the world go around. It’s true. You use math everywhere you go. Ever give a cashier $10.04 on an $9.04 order and had them look at you funny? At the least, you need basic math: addition and subtraction. Multiplication and division wouldn’t hurt either. A knowledge of fractions and decimals also is required. If you don’t understand that a quarter of something is 25% is 1/4th, then you will be ill equipped to handle many of even the most entry level of jobs.

Basic language skills are also a requirement. If you cannot speak your native language with any semblance of comprehension, you will not be taken seriously by those who can. The same goes for your writing skills. If you write and speak like you are in a net chat room, employers and clients will not do business with you. The same is true of your reading skills. To be perfectly blunt, if any of the words I have written are beyond you, then you will be hard pressed to be taken seriously by those in today’s world.

“But, I’m going to be a: singer, actor, football player, artist, etc”.
So what? All of these require solid communications skills.
Singers need to read contracts, lyrics and communicate with agents, sponsors and corporate types. Actors need to read scripts, understand contracts, etc. Football players? A solid education allows them to manage their success, and prepares them with alternates in the event of injury, retirement or not making the cut. If you can’t read and speak, it doesn’t matter how well you know the moves and the plays, you’ll never qualify to be a coach, an announcer or even the waterboy. Artist? Well, as an employer, I get a lot of inquiries from people looking for work. I immediately discard any that contain poor grammar, typos, spelling errors or “leet speek”.

“But I’m going to work for my mom/dad/family/friend.”
Yes, you might. But all of these skills will be of value there. Also, businesses close every day. A friend of mine was going to work in her parents pharmacy. Everything was planned out. Until they had to close the family business. Because she was in a good school, she now has the chance to work elsewhere in her field. Without it, she’d be just another person at the local fast food place wondering how things got that bad.

Bottom line?
Regardless of what your goal is, you need a solid education today. With a college degree, more employers will open the door for you, you’ll have a better chance of advancement as well as a faster rate of advancement, and have solid skills to fall back on when times get rough, which they certainly will at some point. Do careful research before you commit to a school. Check out the programs, the equipment, the faculty and the environment in depth. I’ve made some mistakes over the years and they have cost me. Don’t let poor planning, or the false belief that you don’t need an education be what holds you back from your dreams. Don’t rely on friends or family to open doors and take care of you. Only you can be master of your own destiny, and you need the proper preparation and tools to master it. A solid education is one of those tools.

===
Bob Hubbard is an administrator of the popular martial arts sites MartialTalk.com (http://martialtalk.com/) and KenpoTalk.com (http://kenpotalk.com/). He is president of SilverStar WebDesigns inc., a web site design and hosting company specializing in affordable solutions for martial artists as well as a professional photographer. More of Bob's articles can be found at rustaz.net (http://rustaz.net/). Please contact Bob if you would like him to review your martial arts product.

Copyright ©2006 Bob Hubbard - Copies of this article are free to distribute, provided all text is retained intact.

BlueDragon1981
06-14-2007, 11:28 PM
I agree. I have a college degree.... and it is my young stubborn attitude that got me that degree. I don't let people tell me I can't make it. I felt like giving up more than once but I did not because I was not about to let people say "we knew he wouldn't make it".

Were I work I teach my cashiers to

1. SMILE
2. Ask for the card (you know those loyalty cards you can't get the sale unless you have them... yeah it helps when they ask for that first and causes a lot less problems)

3. Talk to the customer.
"How are you today?"

"Did you find everything?" (can get more sales and it lets them know you at least want them to be able to find things in your store)

4. Ask if they have any coupons today (trust me this helps customer service because people forget)

5. Ask if they have the change (this is where we take the initiative not to have those confused looks.... ;))

6. I tell them if they are not good at math .... then learn the change. It is not hard after 200 or so transactions to learn how to give change.

7. Point out any information on the receipt that is important.

a. coupons
b. tracking numbers (for prepaid cards)

8. Explain the machines.... (our credit card machine is very different than what many people are used to)

9. Thank them and tell them to have a great day.

That is a long list but our score has gone up 10 points on courtesy and friendly since these have been used and you can tell who does not use them. Trust me even though it is 9 things it is important and it takes no time at all.

ping898
06-15-2007, 09:38 AM
I found when I was job searching that I had great deal of prejudice against me and difficulty getting an interview because I didn't have a Master's Degree. Any technical master's really would have done. In this environment it has gotten so a B.S. degree is viewed as how a High School diploma was viewed back in the 50's or 60's. So now I am going for my master's. I am dealing with professors who preach "Do it X way" and I know from experience they are wrong, but I suck it up, ***** and whine about it outside of class and walk away with the grade because I know I need the Master's to reach my goals. I never plan to get a Ph.D. (I can't take much more school) and that will actually hamper my job goal efforts, I just hope it won't squash them.

Cryozombie
06-16-2007, 09:40 AM
There's a flipside to all that as well... and that is the fact that College may increase your chances, but its no guarantee of a job... I'll cite 3 of my friends as examples...

"Ned" went to college and got a bachelor degree in organic chemistry. It was a good degree, in a good program field, from a respected school. It got him a job mixing paint at a hardware store. So he went back to college, and got his masters degree in organic chemistry, and got a job, well, mixing paint at the same hardware store. Frustrated, he went back to college, got his doctorate, and after 9 years of college he finally got a job at a lab... and spends most of his money paying for 9 years of college.

"Sue" went to college and got a degree in music, which was her lifelong passion. She spent a couple years trying to make it in the "real world" as a music teacher... but it didnt work... so she went back to college. She pursued a doctorate degree in microbiology while her husband supported her.

"Roy" went to college and got a masters degree in english. He got a decent enough job as a teacher right out of school... unfortunatley that choice isnt that high paying and he still works as a part time manager of the taco bell we all worked at when we were 16 to make ends meet...

These balance out with other friends like "Sue's" husband "Tony" who went to a tech school, got a job working on AI software for credit card fraud detection, and makes good money... or a certain former member of this board who earned her PharmD and was hired fresh out of school for 100k+...

I think that there are successes and failures on both sides of the college coin, and I suspect it has much more to do with the individual, and of course, the field...

Nobody
06-16-2007, 02:25 PM
While i only have an associate degree, i have seriously had a hard time getting a job in the field of the degree. In recent years i have been out of work and i am just tired of relying on others to make it. Soon i will be that class that lives on the street. That is my fault 100% an from where I am now there is not an available fix.

Bob I agree 100% that communication an appearance are what people judge you on first, so they better be good. Math in my view is apart of communication.

What i do think i messed up on is my good grammar an writing skills area. I could always just blame the fact i am dyslexic but somehow it just does not matter in the end i still blame myself for not trying hard enough or understanding as soon as i shoulda coulda. The part about dyslexia that still just gets me is how could i ever know i see thing different. Trust someone that does not see thing how i do to tell me i have a crossed view, how would i ever know that those who don't have dyslexia do not see the same as I do. I have been putting effort into my writing skill here and in other forums more do to my thinking i do not have the correct tool set. This all relates even to my being banned from martial talk, you know i used the wrong communication to say the wrong thing an this totally relates to bad communication skill without it and comprehension i think one will always struggle in this life.

Is getting better ?
Or do you feel the same?
Will it make it easier on you now?

BlueDragon1981
06-19-2007, 06:42 PM
It does depend on the person. Sometimes it has to do with luck and sometimes you just are in the wrong area at the wrong time.

My communication skills aren't great. My grammar needs some work and my math skills are above average but I am not about to answer any trig questions. So with above average communication, grammar, and math skills and a 32k piece of paper that says I have a Bachelors degree I got a $9/ hour job.

Why is this?

One ...I have a family here that is not ready to move to another area. This area has been losing jobs for years. Industries moving south, or across the big pond. Without the industry all you have left is services and government. Many jobs in this small community are obtained by who you know or who you $%^^%^. (<--- seriously not kidding about that)

Two... young attitude was showing. As I get older I realize more. (obviously) I thought I could get a job after getting my degree. However I was not wise enough to push it and I have a family to support so I took whatever.

Third... everything requires the good old "3 years experience". This area is not willing to give anyone experience without experience. How do you get experience with out being hired. I still don't have the answer to that one, but that is also one reason I took the job I'm in. "To get the experience"

Why is this important....?

Like everyone has said. You need the basic skills along with the technical skills. You have to network and get to know people so you can get that job by "knowing someone". You have to be able to push yourself and have discipline and be willing to fail and get back up again. Communication and resilience. Basic skills that you need, which you have to obtain on your own.

I guess I'm not willing to sacrifice my family having a roof over their heads and such at this time. I guess I am taking somewhat of the conservative approach, but I am determined to get a better job.

Today I sent out two resumes. I plan on sending out more for high paying jobs that I probably don't have the "experience" for, but hell I'm gonna try for them.

My advice ...Ignore the experience factor and try it if you get turned down.... oh well.

Another thing is talk to as many people as possible and without being pushy or arrogant work in what you can do and what your skills are. I talk to people where I work all the time. I am at the point that even the staff calls me up for computer questions and the difficult photo machine questions. Customers are seeing this and although it is not "direct" networking it may someday get me something else.

Never be afraid to learn more. Soak it all in as I would say. I learn something new all the time. Something practical that my business management class which talked about theories and such did not teach me. However I can apply some of what I learned to the situations.... it works both ways really. Learn from everyone. You never know who is going to teach you a valuable lesson.

Don't listen to the negative remarks to a degree that you become depressed. Take something out of them and improve it and take the negative part with a grain of salt. Move past your past...lol. If you made a stupid mistake don't dwell just move on and keep trying.

I know some of that seems like its a little off subject but it helps to know others struggle with life and just to keep going and trying things until you succeed is the best thing you can do.


My advice on picking a college. Look at one that fits who you are. Don't look at equipment, technology and if at all possible costs. (<---- sometimes you have to look at that when making final desisions.) Go online and see what people are saying about the school. Visit more than one even if you think you are sure to go to that one school. Don't look at the schools prestige unless that matters to you. Look at class size if you like smaller classes go for a smaller school. It comes down to what you feel comfortable with.

Sorry ... I got on a rant and started rambling................

Hawke
06-21-2007, 07:39 AM
College education gives you opportunity. Even if you win the lottery or you're a trust fund baby, the education you receive will give you a better appreciation for the life around you. Consistently learn about your field. Do more than your paid for. Mind your attitude. Persevere. Do what you love (makes everything above possible and keeps you sane).

Shandril
06-21-2007, 08:41 AM
One thing to keep in mind with regards to experience. If you went to a technical school or college that offers hands on training where you actually do what was taught in the lecture portion of the day you can count that towards experience so for example you go to a technical school for an associates degree in electronics the 2 years you spent in the lab actually building the circuits and working with the components counts as experience.

And never turn down an interview it doesn't hurt to go and see what the job has to offer even if you don't thing you will take the job it is good experience to go on job interviews and you never know the guy that is interviewing you might know of someone who is looking for someone with your qualifications.

Silent Bob
06-21-2007, 12:01 PM
I've walked into interviews where they wanted the impossible. (10 years of Win 95 experience....in Jan 96, or Visual Basic in a Linux Environment, are 2 examples I've been asked for)

I've walked into interviews where I was told that a lack of a degree, even in something as useless as Eng. Lit, was what kept me from a job. Never mind that on the skill level, I was over qualified for the position, and had the industry certs and experience to back it up. (Yeah, me, the guy who runs a hosting company, who is a former NT system admin and level 3 ISP desk/bench tech and who has an A+, MCP, and more, was turned down for a level 1 tech job for lack of a diploma. LOL!)

But, you keep trying. Somewhere, there's a fit. I keep doing the things I love....someday, it'll turn that corner and the real cash flow will be there. :)

Nobody
06-21-2007, 09:13 PM
One thing to keep in mind with regards to experience. If you went to a technical school or college that offers hands on training where you actually do what was taught in the lecture portion of the day you can count that towards experience so for example you go to a technical school for an associates degree in electronics the 2 years you spent in the lab actually building the circuits and working with the components counts as experience.

And never turn down an interview it doesn't hurt to go and see what the job has to offer even if you don't thing you will take the job it is good experience to go on job interviews and you never know the guy that is interviewing you might know of someone who is looking for someone with your qualifications.

I agree i have never thought to use that as part of my experience. I must be a puppet brain.


Well bob i don't get why in computer field they would turn down someone with that kinda skill. At least you get to talk to martial artist on a martial arts forum you run. There is the silver lining.;)

Shandril
06-21-2007, 10:45 PM
Well bob they didn't want to pay you what you were worth so they went and hired someone else that would take less money. That and the fact that the IT field has a lot of people looking for work that is why I went to ITT Technical Institute for Computer Electronics Technology which was 95% electronics and 5% Computers.

dubalicious
06-22-2007, 12:51 AM
Was it any good?
I'm looking into what I want to do when I get out of the military and I've already have plenty of electronics training and going on 6 years of hands on experiance with 'tronics.

Shandril
06-22-2007, 07:49 AM
I got a lot out of the 2 years I was there.